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WALTHAM FOREST: Were 250,000 library books burned?
ALMOST a quarter of a million books have gone missing from Waltham Forest libraries amid claims they have been burned or pulped.
That means there are 60 per cent fewer books in local libraries now than there were two years ago.
Library worker Lyndon Holmes told the Guardian: "We have to tell the public we can't get the books for them.
"When we have 15 million Mills and Boon, but no classics, it's just a shame. It's almost impossible now to do the job," the Unison union representative added.
"I know for a fact lots of them were taken to the tip, at least two van loads. There were all sorts, but I know there were brand new books."
All the borough's non-recyclable rubbish is taken to the London Waste depot at Edmonton to be burned. And anything not already sorted for recycling is destroyed along with the rest.
Mr Holmes said the books were dumped to make space in the refurbished Walthamstow Central Library and, by the time work was finished, there was not enough staff left in employment to sort them, give them away or sell them.
According to official figures presented to the council's cabinet in July, Waltham Forest's book stock has fallen from 1,738 per thousand people in 2004-5 to 717 per thousand people in April this year. That is a cull of 229,725 books, based on the current population of 225,000.
Nearly 75,000 books vanished during January and March this year alone.
David Brangwyn, a former librarian at Walthamstow Central Library, said staff had spent weeks packing and labelling books worth thousands of pounds before the library was refurbished but no-one knew where they went.
"They were perfectly good books and there was no reason to throw them away," he said.
Campaigners confronted the cabinet member for libraries, Cllr Geraldine Reardon, at Walthamstow West Community Council on Monday, demanding to know how many books had been destroyed.
"People tell me they've been pulped, burned, put in storage or sold off," said Michael Gold.
Cllr Reardon refused to comment at the meeting and when the Guardian later contacted her. She said she would answer campaigners' questions at the next meeting on January 28.
7:47am Thursday 22nd November 2007
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CommentPosted by: Morris Hickey, Chigwell on 9:08am Thu 22 Nov 07
Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, and other dictators all burned books. Books keep people properly informed. Now the Waltham Forest cabinet is presiding over the burning or other wanton destruction of books.
Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, and other dictators all burned books. Books keep people properly informed. Now the Waltham Forest cabinet is presiding over the burning or other wanton destruction of books.
Posted by: Dave, Chingford on 9:49am Thu 22 Nov 07
Booking Burning is a heinous act, it's the destruction of knowledge!, if this is true then the council should hold their heads in shame!
Booking Burning is a heinous act, it's the destruction of knowledge!, if this is true then the council should hold their heads in shame!
Posted by: Concerned council tax payer, Walthamstow on 11:02am Thu 22 Nov 07
Why do will have to wait until January for an answer? Surely they know where the books have gone or is this yet another example of poor council organisation as we have seen with recycling.
Why do will have to wait until January for an answer? Surely they know where the books have gone or is this yet another example of poor council organisation as we have seen with recycling.
Posted by: Caroline, Walthamstow on 11:23am Thu 22 Nov 07
We have been asking questions about what has happened to the 17,000 books that were in St James St Library before they suddenly shut it, but the council has been unable to give us any clear answers. The children's non fiction section, in particular, was really excellent in St James and these books certainly aren't in Central library. See our website www.stjamesstlibrary
.wordpress.com
for more about what the Campaign is doing to try and save both St James and Waltham Forest libraries generally, and how you can help.
We have been asking questions about what has happened to the 17,000 books that were in St James St Library before they suddenly shut it, but the council has been unable to give us any clear answers. The children's non fiction section, in particular, was really excellent in St James and these books certainly aren't in Central library. See our website www.stjamesstlibrary
.wordpress.com
for more about what the Campaign is doing to try and save both St James and Waltham Forest libraries generally, and how you can help.
Posted by: Chris, Essex on 11:54am Thu 22 Nov 07
I can foresee an increase of one in the reading material available from Waltham Forest Council round about Jan 28. But don't expect too much - few masterpieces are produced that quickly
I can foresee an increase of one in the reading material available from Waltham Forest Council round about Jan 28. But don't expect too much - few masterpieces are produced that quickly
Posted by: Rich, Walthamstow on 12:03pm Thu 22 Nov 07
This is the same department as imposing part-time cuts on the gallery and museum - what is going on there?
This is the same department as imposing part-time cuts on the gallery and museum - what is going on there?
Posted by: Darron, Chingford on 12:34pm Thu 22 Nov 07
Soon, the only thing to be left of Waltham Forest Culture will be "the David Beckham trail".
I've been a member of my local library for almost 40 years, almost since birth. I've used the books for school, college and university work, as well as research needed at work. I've found books I cannot find elsewhere, usually because they are out of print.
I've got plenty of my own books and wanted to have them left to the libraries in my will. I now think they would just be put on a bonfire with my remains.
Dumbing down is something we've seen happen with television and newspapers. I've never before seen a council actively encourage it.
Shame on Waltham Forest Council.
Soon, the only thing to be left of Waltham Forest Culture will be "the David Beckham trail".
I've been a member of my local library for almost 40 years, almost since birth. I've used the books for school, college and university work, as well as research needed at work. I've found books I cannot find elsewhere, usually because they are out of print.
I've got plenty of my own books and wanted to have them left to the libraries in my will. I now think they would just be put on a bonfire with my remains.
Dumbing down is something we've seen happen with television and newspapers. I've never before seen a council actively encourage it.
Shame on Waltham Forest Council.
Posted by: Steve Knowles, Leytonstone on 1:00pm Thu 22 Nov 07
This is disgusting and obscene. We are being forceably dummed down by this inept and vulgar council. They should be dismissed.
This is disgusting and obscene. We are being forceably dummed down by this inept and vulgar council. They should be dismissed.
Posted by: Walthamster, E17 on 1:24pm Thu 22 Nov 07
This isn't even about money - these are books the council already owns. It probably costs money to destroy them.
Why are they dumped when the redesigned libraries are full of empty space? Even if the council wants to demote libraries into all-purpose council buildings, as seems likely, why not just leave the books on temporary bookshelves?
The only answer (and I've racked my brains for any other) is that, as with downgrading the gallery and museum, this council just hates anything that could give people ideas.
This isn't even about money - these are books the council already owns. It probably costs money to destroy them.
Why are they dumped when the redesigned libraries are full of empty space? Even if the council wants to demote libraries into all-purpose council buildings, as seems likely, why not just leave the books on temporary bookshelves?
The only answer (and I've racked my brains for any other) is that, as with downgrading the gallery and museum, this council just hates anything that could give people ideas.
Posted by: Council-tax payer, Walthamstow on 3:12pm Thu 22 Nov 07
This is a scandal of national proportions. Every new revelation about this council shows its contempt for the people who pay councillors' inflated allowances.
Libraries, old people's services, social and cultural amenities cut, in order to save a tiny fraction of the amount squandered on pie-in-the-sky projects -- which are then dropped without a word of apology millions of pounds later. Now they're literally throwing our assets on the tip! My money has been taken and thrown away.
I want someone to be held responsible for this.
This is a scandal of national proportions. Every new revelation about this council shows its contempt for the people who pay councillors' inflated allowances.
Libraries, old people's services, social and cultural amenities cut, in order to save a tiny fraction of the amount squandered on pie-in-the-sky projects -- which are then dropped without a word of apology millions of pounds later. Now they're literally throwing our assets on the tip! My money has been taken and thrown away.
I want someone to be held responsible for this.
Posted by: Morris Hickey, Chigwell on 3:24pm Thu 22 Nov 07
Well the cabinet members will no doubt all scurry away blaming somebody else. But ultimately there is just one person who has to accept responsibility for what happens. His name is Clyde Loakes.
Well the cabinet members will no doubt all scurry away blaming somebody else. But ultimately there is just one person who has to accept responsibility for what happens. His name is Clyde Loakes.
Posted by: Dave Hall, Walthamstow on 4:04pm Thu 22 Nov 07
[bold]boldWaltham Forest:bold[/bold]225,000 books, One [bold]Crime[/bold]
boldWaltham Forest:bold225,000 books, One
Crime Posted by: Dave Hall, Walthamstow on 4:06pm Thu 22 Nov 07
Sorry, they are not bold, the text should be:
Waltham Forest: 225,000 books, [bold]one crime[/bold]
Sorry, they are not bold, the text should be:
Waltham Forest: 225,000 books,
one crime Posted by: Graham, London on 4:27pm Thu 22 Nov 07
Seriously, do people really believe the council is trying to dumb you down? Come on. I expect that conspiracy talk from redneck yanky hicks, not from Londoners. If the conucil is burning books it's a travesty, however, there is no evidence of this and I'd suggest waiting for some to surface prior to convincing yourselves everyone at the town hall is dead set on de-culturing us!
Seriously, do people really believe the council is trying to dumb you down? Come on. I expect that conspiracy talk from redneck yanky hicks, not from Londoners. If the conucil is burning books it's a travesty, however, there is no evidence of this and I'd suggest waiting for some to surface prior to convincing yourselves everyone at the town hall is dead set on de-culturing us!
Posted by: Parmo Green on 6:01pm Thu 22 Nov 07
Has anybody checked the councillors' pages on Amazon marketplace recently?
Has anybody checked the councillors' pages on Amazon marketplace recently?
Posted by: mdj, e10 on 9:24pm Thu 22 Nov 07
[quote][bold]Graham[/bold] wrote:
Seriously, do people really believe the council is trying to dumb you down? Come on. I expect that conspiracy talk from redneck yanky hicks, not from Londoners. If the conucil is burning books it's a travesty, however, there is no evidence of this and I'd suggest waiting for some to surface prior to convincing yourselves everyone at the town hall is dead set on de-culturing us![/quote] Graham,
Try thinking of a couple of good books you know were in the library a year ago, and try and find them now. Example: Halsbury's Laws of England, the huge multi-volume legal encyclopaedia, value several hundred pounds. Rumours have circulated for months: now however, librarians are telling the inside story. The Council have tried to hide the truth on this and many other things. Perhaps you're a Labour loyalist as I once was, but if you look into how the library manager was appointed by her boss, a former Council Leader, you'll be sickened.mdj
Graham wrote:
Seriously, do people really believe the council is trying to dumb you down? Come on. I expect that conspiracy talk from redneck yanky hicks, not from Londoners. If the conucil is burning books it's a travesty, however, there is no evidence of this and I'd suggest waiting for some to surface prior to convincing yourselves everyone at the town hall is dead set on de-culturing us!
Graham,
Try thinking of a couple of good books you know were in the library a year ago, and try and find them now. Example: Halsbury's Laws of England, the huge multi-volume legal encyclopaedia, value several hundred pounds. Rumours have circulated for months: now however, librarians are telling the inside story. The Council have tried to hide the truth on this and many other things. Perhaps you're a Labour loyalist as I once was, but if you look into how the library manager was appointed by her boss, a former Council Leader, you'll be sickened.mdj
Posted by: Janet, E17 on 9:39pm Thu 22 Nov 07
Just like Darron, I've been a library member for decades and would hate to lose this service. I'm absolutely gutted that these books have purportedly been destroyed, especially when I see the badly stocked shelves in the 2 libraries I visit and struggle to find something easy and interesting to read.
Just like Darron, I've been a library member for decades and would hate to lose this service. I'm absolutely gutted that these books have purportedly been destroyed, especially when I see the badly stocked shelves in the 2 libraries I visit and struggle to find something easy and interesting to read.
Posted by: Researcher, Walthamstow on 9:43pm Thu 22 Nov 07
Cllr Reardon should not be allowed to refuse to answer until she feels like it next year. The loss of 60% of our books, some of them deliberately dumped, is an outrage and demands immediate action. As this largely happened before Cllr Reardon took the culture portfolio, she should resign and let those responsible explain themselves to the electorate.
Cllr Reardon should not be allowed to refuse to answer until she feels like it next year. The loss of 60% of our books, some of them deliberately dumped, is an outrage and demands immediate action. As this largely happened before Cllr Reardon took the culture portfolio, she should resign and let those responsible explain themselves to the electorate.
Posted by: Flash Bristow, Leytonstone on 10:55pm Thu 22 Nov 07
I was shocked when Leytonstone Library reopened to find that it had no more books than before - they'd just been spaced out! My interests are in music biographies and true crime and I could find nothing that I didn't already own.
I was shocked when Leytonstone Library reopened to find that it had no more books than before - they'd just been spaced out! My interests are in music biographies and true crime and I could find nothing that I didn't already own.
Posted by: Mark Hart, Walthamstow on 8:32am Fri 23 Nov 07
I'm appalled at the book choice in Walthamstow's libraries. Especially the refurbished Central Library. Fortunately I work in Haringey close to Hornsey Library which is excellent by comparison with literature and recently published books and DVD's. Walthamstow Council should be ashamed. Philistines. Cllr Reardon particularly.
I'm appalled at the book choice in Walthamstow's libraries. Especially the refurbished Central Library. Fortunately I work in Haringey close to Hornsey Library which is excellent by comparison with literature and recently published books and DVD's. Walthamstow Council should be ashamed. Philistines. Cllr Reardon particularly.
Posted by: William Morris, Walthamstow on 10:38am Fri 23 Nov 07
Before everyone fans the flames of this 'fire' lets look at some facts.
How can this employee claim their are 15 million 'Mills and Boons' one moment whilst by my own calucations on the figures given, there are only about 160,000 books in total in the Libraries?
Before everyone fans the flames of this 'fire' lets look at some facts.
How can this employee claim their are 15 million 'Mills and Boons' one moment whilst by my own calucations on the figures given, there are only about 160,000 books in total in the Libraries?
Posted by: Mark Hart, Walthamstow on 1:27pm Fri 23 Nov 07
You're being obtuse Mr Morris.
A clumsy comment from the librarian should not be allowed to obscure the fact that something is amiss and needs investigating. I believe that this is a matter of public interest and is such a serious allegation that Cllr Reardon and colleagues would do well to respond in a much quicker manner than intended.
You're being obtuse Mr Morris.
A clumsy comment from the librarian should not be allowed to obscure the fact that something is amiss and needs investigating. I believe that this is a matter of public interest and is such a serious allegation that Cllr Reardon and colleagues would do well to respond in a much quicker manner than intended.
Posted by: Gary on 6:39pm Fri 23 Nov 07
Very sad. Probably a reflection on 21st century UK. 24/7 TV etc but no culture.
Very sad. Probably a reflection on 21st century UK. 24/7 TV etc but no culture.
Posted by: book lover, E17 on 12:46am Sat 24 Nov 07
Books are such treasures just like the gallery and museums. It takes years to increase its value and appreciate its importance in life and society. With the mysterious disappearing of the valuable books in our libraries esp the remodelled libraries, what future is there for the younger generation? All unfurnished libraries - beware of refurbishment as there is a cost to pay. There will be reduction in books and experienced staff. So tell the council to keep their hands off your libraries.
See the fate of Central and Leytonstone libraries!
Books are such treasures just like the gallery and museums. It takes years to increase its value and appreciate its importance in life and society. With the mysterious disappearing of the valuable books in our libraries esp the remodelled libraries, what future is there for the younger generation? All unfurnished libraries - beware of refurbishment as there is a cost to pay. There will be reduction in books and experienced staff. So tell the council to keep their hands off your libraries.
See the fate of Central and Leytonstone libraries!
Posted by: Researcher, E17 on 12:57pm Sat 24 Nov 07
[quote][bold]William Morris[/bold] wrote:
Before everyone fans the flames of this 'fire' lets look at some facts.
How can this employee claim their are 15 million 'Mills and Boons' one moment whilst by my own calucations on the figures given, there are only about 160,000 books in total in the Libraries?[/quote] Please don't pretend you thought there were 15 million Mills & Boons! "Millions" just means "huge numbers" when people use it like this. The point the librarian is making is that the shelves are filled with cheap easy-reading paperbacks instead of anything that makes people thinks.
William Morris wrote:
Before everyone fans the flames of this 'fire' lets look at some facts.
How can this employee claim their are 15 million 'Mills and Boons' one moment whilst by my own calucations on the figures given, there are only about 160,000 books in total in the Libraries?
Please don't pretend you thought there were 15 million Mills & Boons! "Millions" just means "huge numbers" when people use it like this. The point the librarian is making is that the shelves are filled with cheap easy-reading paperbacks instead of anything that makes people thinks.
Posted by: ew, uk on 10:08pm Sat 24 Nov 07
If library books have been removed I do hope they are the numerous works by the likes of Abu Ala Maududi, Dilwar Hussain Sayeedi and Muhammad bin Jamil Zino criticised for being in our libraries in September. Here.
http://www.guardian-
series.co.uk/search/
display.var.1702133.
0.waltham_forest_boo
ks_of_hate_in_our_li
braries.php
I would like to think so. Sadly if valuable reference books like Halsbury's Laws of England are missing then there is cause for concern.
I would be in a sorry state now had Lea Bridge Road Library not been a twice weekly haunt in my youth.
If library books have been removed I do hope they are the numerous works by the likes of Abu Ala Maududi, Dilwar Hussain Sayeedi and Muhammad bin Jamil Zino criticised for being in our libraries in September. Here.
http://www.guardian-
series.co.uk/search/
display.var.1702133.
0.waltham_forest_boo
ks_of_hate_in_our_li
braries.php
I would like to think so. Sadly if valuable reference books like Halsbury's Laws of England are missing then there is cause for concern.
I would be in a sorry state now had Lea Bridge Road Library not been a twice weekly haunt in my youth.
Posted by: Jose, E17 on 5:13pm Sun 25 Nov 07
I used to enjoy reading books in Spanish and French. Most of these have gone. The council is always talking about consultation. What a joke.
I used to enjoy reading books in Spanish and French. Most of these have gone. The council is always talking about consultation. What a joke.
Posted by: Alex, leyton on 3:39pm Mon 26 Nov 07
Walthamstow library once had one of the best public collections in London. Its demise is an act of vandalism. If it's discovered that a quarter of a million books were indeed destroyed then surely those responsible must face charges arising from the destruction of public property.
Alex
Walthamstow library once had one of the best public collections in London. Its demise is an act of vandalism. If it's discovered that a quarter of a million books were indeed destroyed then surely those responsible must face charges arising from the destruction of public property.
Alex
Posted by: Janet Wright, Walthamstow on 1:08pm Thu 29 Nov 07
Book-burning is an outrage, and so is the council's refusal to answer questions about it until next year. Members of St James Street Library Group and other individuals have been asking where the books have gone for several months already.
Like a child caught with a cricket bat under a broken window, the council keeps insisting "I wasn't there and I didn't do it." How many people have to count the few surviving books in our former libraries -- redesigned as multipurpose buildings -- before the council admits it is closing libraries by stealth?
Local resident Kevin Lord told Monday's community council meeting (19 Nov) he had counted about 6,500 books in Walthamstow central library. That may not have included all the non-fiction, because one room is sometimes closed for lack of staff -- another cost-cutting scandal in itself. Mr Lord quoted the Group Manager for WF Libraries as stating there were 37,257 non-fiction and 35,797 fiction books.
My own count, for fiction alone, backs up Mr Lord's figures. I counted well under 5,000 novels in the vast hall that once contained tens of thousands. There are just 192 metres of bookshelving in the fiction hall, on eight wheeled bookcases. (Yes, I took a tape measure, pencil and paper!) If you packed in 40 books per metre, you still couldn't fit in even 8,000 books.
Most of the present novels are flimsy paperbacks that will soon need replacing, unlike the previous sturdy hardbacks. The former collection included everything from popular fiction to English classics and world literature, both in translation and in the original languages spoken by many WF residents. The present collection is mainly chick-lit and thrillers, with very little in minority languages.
I ask our council leader, Cllr Clyde Loakes: where are our books? If they're in storage, let us see them. If they've been sold, show us the receipts. If they've been given away, show us the evidence.
Because Waltham Forest council has failed to do this after many requests, I believe the council has destroyed them.
Book-burning is an outrage, and so is the council's refusal to answer questions about it until next year. Members of St James Street Library Group and other individuals have been asking where the books have gone for several months already.
Like a child caught with a cricket bat under a broken window, the council keeps insisting "I wasn't there and I didn't do it." How many people have to count the few surviving books in our former libraries -- redesigned as multipurpose buildings -- before the council admits it is closing libraries by stealth?
Local resident Kevin Lord told Monday's community council meeting (19 Nov) he had counted about 6,500 books in Walthamstow central library. That may not have included all the non-fiction, because one room is sometimes closed for lack of staff -- another cost-cutting scandal in itself. Mr Lord quoted the Group Manager for WF Libraries as stating there were 37,257 non-fiction and 35,797 fiction books.
My own count, for fiction alone, backs up Mr Lord's figures. I counted well under 5,000 novels in the vast hall that once contained tens of thousands. There are just 192 metres of bookshelving in the fiction hall, on eight wheeled bookcases. (Yes, I took a tape measure, pencil and paper!) If you packed in 40 books per metre, you still couldn't fit in even 8,000 books.
Most of the present novels are flimsy paperbacks that will soon need replacing, unlike the previous sturdy hardbacks. The former collection included everything from popular fiction to English classics and world literature, both in translation and in the original languages spoken by many WF residents. The present collection is mainly chick-lit and thrillers, with very little in minority languages.
I ask our council leader, Cllr Clyde Loakes: where are our books? If they're in storage, let us see them. If they've been sold, show us the receipts. If they've been given away, show us the evidence.
Because Waltham Forest council has failed to do this after many requests, I believe the council has destroyed them.
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